In this segment of Functional Medicine Back to Basics Dr. Rutherford discusses the male hormones.
Note: The following is the output of a transcription from the video above. Although the transcription is largely accurate, in some cases it is incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.
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So so for the again for those of you have been watching, I’m there’s. An order to this. There’s, a hierarchy, a pretty general hierarchy as to how you attack things and we’ve. Already gone over a lot of stuff, we’ve, gone over basics of care relative to blood sugar and essential fatty acids and oxygen.
We’ve gone over everything from the exam to the history, to the large intestines intestinal permeability, chemical sensitivities and in a relative order. I’m making that point that, again to those who may just be bringing this up.
For the first time, because we’re close to the end of this series – and we’re now, just getting to the male hormone imbalances and a subsequent presentation will be on female hormone imbalances. We’re.
Doing we’re doing the else first, not because we’re sexist, but because, frankly, it’s. A lot easier to me, health males, don’t have as much going on, thank God as the females have. I say that as a male and I’m, treating females and and and and the women having to deal with a lot more complexity.
So so we’re going to be talking about mainly we’re gonna be talking about loti. We’re gonna be talking about low tea, low testosterone. I mean I listen to a radio program every morning to get the news and the weather and the traffic and all that type of stuff, and there’s, no shortage of ways to get up your testosterone to raise that old testosterone.
There’s medications there’s. There’s herbs there’s. Botanicals. I’m, going to present you with a little different look on that there’s, a reason that that your testosterone is low. We’re, going to talk about those things there’s, a reason that it’s being presented last and and actually the way we look at problems is not that their testosterone is low, but the vast majority of time We’re, looking at it that their estrogens are high, that the male estrogens are high.
This is usually the problem, basically male problems, with the exception of prostate problems, which is too much testosterone because it’s, not getting cleared out of your system. Our are low, testosterone problems secondary to estrogen being high, and that’s.
Has a term it’s called andropause, and when I mentioned that to my male patients, they kind of look at me like, like they’ve, never heard the term before so it’s, the equivalent of menopause when women Go into menopause and they lose their.
They lose their ability to make estrogen from their ovaries. It’s different with men. It’s, not that men are losing their ability to make testosterone it’s that they’re, creating too much estrogen. So here’s this so here’s.
The picture of somebody who is creating too much estrogen increased body fat. You’re, you’re, you’re, getting you’re. Getting the increased body fat around your waist and, and you can’t, lose the weight you you know it could be.
It could be from fluid retention, but increased body fat can be manopause if men start getting. What is euphemistically caused his man boobs, so you’re. Looking at somebody’s got like a gut who & # 39? S probably got you know who’s, probably got a gut.
You’re. Looking at somebody who’s getting breasts as a man, they’re, actually starting to get the man boobs. You’re. Looking at somebody who’s, starting to get more emotional, you’ll notice. I’m starting to get into breasts more emotional.
I’m. Assuming there’s, not a lot of women tuning. You know this thing, but just in case there are, women do tend to be a little bit more emotional than men. It’s because of their hormones. Okay, it’s, not because they’re weaker.
It’s because of their hormones, and so so in andropause, the guys kind of turning into a little bit of turning into a female, because these are symptoms of more estrogen fat around here that won’t, go away.
Man boobs starting to maybe cry at those movies on on television, on the on the Women’s Channel when you’re sitting there with your wife watching them low libido. Obviously, now, if you have high estrogen, you’re.
Normally going to have low testosterone or it’s, a very least you’re gonna have a balance where your estrogen is equal to or higher than your testosterone. That’s. That’s, not a good thing. The balance has to be for men, testosterone, more for women testosterone more towards mood depression.
If you have depression, one of the many things that can cause that is low testosterone. Your frontal lobe has receptor sites for testosterone. Testosterone massively helps a male to have good frontal lobe and a good for a little function.
Good frontal, lobe function is that’s. Your executive function that your motivational function. Testosterone, testosterone, you’re, not very motivated. Testosterone is kind of a gas pedal, so that’s. That’s motivation, but it’s mood and then, if men have low testosterone, they’re.
Going to not be very, they’re, not gonna be very happy. They’re gonna be more or less depressed and had Daniel. It’s, a fancy name that says you know I’m, just not having fun in life anymore. It’s. That’s, so those are types of things you’ll, see you’ll, see low energy levels.
You know testosterone, I just got done saying is the is the is the is the gas pedal if your brain is not getting stimulated enough by testosterone, that will that will cause you to have low energy? We’re gonna talk about how some of the most common causes, one of the most common causes of low testosterone, is diet.
Okay, so and the same diet that will cause you to have low testosterone will also cause you to have usually blood sugar problems, usually pre-diabetes or insulin resistance or diabetes type 2. We’ll talk about how this creates the high estrogen and the low testosterone, and that causes fatigue.
Those types that those types of dietary regimens cause fatigue insomnia, because I’m. What kind of I’m kind of crossing over now into the high estrogen in some in high estrogen, as we’re going to talk about again? It is a lot of times heavily caused by pre-diabetes in your fats and causing your fat cells to turn estrogen into testosterone.
I gave you a little little, you know foreshadowing there and and that pre-diabetes can make you get up in the middle of the night and tap to pee. So it ‘ Ll interrupt your sleep quite a bit. It can cause prostate problems because high estrogen levels will lead to enlarged prostate, which will which will cause urinary issues, and so that’s.
Maybe a first for some of you to hear that that it may be more about your high estrogen levels. Then then, then, the testosterone that is accumulating in there because you’re, making too much. What’s called dihydrotestosterone, or you’re, not clearing it out, and you’re, not clearing it out a lot of times relative to this estrogen problem and then and then cardiovascular disease is kind of extreme.
But by that time you usually figure out your your testosterone imbalances or their, but but but these can also stroke it stroke there’s. A I’m. Sorry, I let me let me go back on that. The the low testosterone and high estrogen is highly inflammatory, and that tends to create inflammation that makes you susceptible to stroke and susceptible to cardiac problems, but the inflammatory response that causes the cardiac problems in turn causes something called high cortisol.
So we ‘ Ve talked about cortisol a great length, I think, two times ago, when we talked about adrenal glands, we’re gonna mention those a little bit here before we’re done, and adrenal glands. When you get inflammation, the adrenal glands are like they control your blood sugar.
They control your blood pressure, they control your energy, they control a lot of things when they put out too much cortisol. What cortisols main job is, after it creates information, is to move blood.
Sugar out of your liver, to try to control your blood sugar, you get too much blood sugar and the next thing you know, and next thing you know. If you’re, an older man, you’re, not getting a lot of exercise.
Things like that, you start developing blood sugar problems that starts to that starts to cause you to put on the weight at the man. Boobs get the press start crying it at female-oriented movies, the emotional tug at your art type movies, so that that’s kind of like the that’s kind of like what you.
If you’re feeling those things. If you’re having those problems, if you’re, if the normal thing is, is to be taking a medication for all of those right, so it’s like okay, yeah, low libido, they test you.
They look at your testosterone slow, so they give you a a low libido shot of testosterone and that’s, not the functional medicine world. Obviously, well, you might say well the functional medicine world’s.
To go. Take one of the many products that are online now that will bring your testosterone up and it will okay, but here’s, a problem. It’s, something called a Roma Thais ation there’s, a couple of problems with that and I’m gonna go over them all.
It’s, something called a Roma today. Ssin. Remember that word, because if you’re feeling all the things that I’m talking about right now and you’re aging and you’re, let’s. I’ll, be generous and say 55, although I’ve.
Seen this and I’ve seen this in 35 year olds, I’m, seeing it much much sooner. I think it’s because of the stress we’ll talk about it used to be you didn’t, see it until people were 55 60 65, but now we’re, seeing it a lot sooner.
So if you’re having these symptoms, remember the word andropause, because it’s, the equivalent of menopause in women. They lose estrogen in men. We lose testosterone, but we lose testosterone mostly because we are building too much estrogen.
How do we do that, so there is so fat cells, okay, store estrogen in both men and women in women. It’s, a good thing: okay in women, it’s, its life, the estrogens and balances in women. It’s, largely a good thing and then not so much okay in men.
We know we need estrogen, we need testosterone, we all need pregnenolone, we all progesterone, we all need all of the hormones and then we need more testosterone in the when we have pre-diabetes there’s, two things that will cause this.
Okay, when we have pre-diabetes when we have what’s called insulin resistance, which your means that your your blood sugar starts, getting high insulin resistance. You’re still banging between high and low.
You’ll, get symptoms of high blood sugar where you’ll eat. You know, and you’ll kind of nod off after dinner, but you also get it. You’ll also get symptoms of low blood sugar. Where you, if you don &, # 39 t eat and then you feel better or if you don’t eat, get herbal and shaky, and you want to choke your wife and stuff like that.
That’s, insulin resistance. Then you go through pre-diabetes, the the the low blood sugar stuff about getting irritable and shaky. That kind of goes away, and now you just start getting the. I’m urinating frequently and I’m, putting on weight and I can’t, lose it and and and I crave sugars and and so you start getting more diabetic type symptoms.
Although you may not be the diabetes and then you morph in the diabetes, the reason I go through all those is because you started a Roma tizen in which is turning aromatized means. You are in your fat cells.
You are turning your testosterone into estrogen like like a like a woman, thus okay, and so so so this is so. This is the key to andropause and, and so whether you’re in pre-diabetes, whether an insulin resistance or whether you’re in type 2 diabetes, this mechanism starts it might start over here a little bit at a time.
All sudden I’m, just having trouble, losing weight and then and then and then one of the things is, you start having a low libido. If you’re 35, you know you’re gonna go to the doctor. They’re gonna tell you they’re gonna.
Take your testosterone, you’re gonna look at it and go it’s low! Let’s. Give you a shot. They’re, not going to look at you’re. They’re, not going to look at you’re. They’re, not gonna. Look at your estrogens.
They’re, mostly not gon. Na look at your luteinizing hormone are in a man’s particular case follicle. Stimulating hormone follicle-stimulating hormone. Is that in your brain that tells your testicles to make testosterone they’re, not gon.
Na look at that whole feedback loop and we’re gonna talk about that in a second, why that is important. They’re, just gonna look at the testosterone. They’re. Looking they’re, not gonna look at why the testosterone is the way it is.
They’re, not gonna look at it that it’s, probably your pre-diabetes, or that it’s. Insulin resistance right! Thank that there’s going to give you an injection, though, are they’re gonna give you a pill, or they’re gonna give me a cream here’s, a problem with that, okay, and And the same thing with herbs and botanicals that are just kind of like just there to raise your testosterone there’s a time for that.
We’ll talk about it in a minute! So so, when you get so there’s this, how does a hormone work? Okay, your there’s, part of your brain, and that says it’s called the hypothalamus for those of you who are a little bit more clinical about these things.
The hypothalamus says there’s, not enough on there’s, not enough testosterone in my in my bloodstream. So then what happens? Is that alerts the pituitary gland, which is the master gland it it’s, the brain part that tells all of your all of your hormonal glands.
What to do it’s, a growth hormone and and and and a female estrogen, and it talks to your thyroid. It talks to to your adrenals talks to all these guys, the, but in this particular case we’re talking about male hormones.
So then that pituitary gland is supposed to tell your testicles to make testosterone and then your testicles make testosterone. The hypothalamus says: oh, we got enough and – and you have this balance mechanism when you do hormone replacement therapy – and you see this most in the powerlift there’s – the heavy weight lifters that that that take it to you know to boost their muscle.
I mean these are steroids, your testosterone, estrogen progesterone. These are steroids. They’re there in the body, one of the other things that they are supposed to do other than give and more muscular fullness.
Is they dampen inflammation, so steroids, so their actual steroids? So you have the weightlifters to take them and make the muscles bigger a bad thing to do, because what it does is when you’re, taking an exogenous form and a form outs from outside of your body.
Okay, it’s, telling your brain that hypothalamus it’s, saying man. We have like a time the testosterone flying around here and we don’t really don’t need to talk to the truth, very glad. Why would you at least that part of it that does the testosterone and that talks to the testicle? So we’ll just tell that to teri grant take a vacation and when that pituitary gland takes a vacation, your testicles start to atrophy.
So it’s, been it’s been said that heavy weight, lifters uh many developed a little testicle because they start at your f — -ing from not making tests out now I haven’t checked that out personally. Just for the record, but but but this is but this is a this is a fact.
Okay, this is taught in in in in diagnostics in school, and so this feedback loop gets interfered with and if it gets interfere with the point where you’re, not making enough tests us where your testicles aren’t getting testosterone except For me, an exogenous force, they’re gonna they’re gonna atrophy because they’re not needing to make any so they just started not making it.
So it’s. Not so I’m, not a big hormone replacement therapy family’s, not in the beginning. When somebody comes in to me with something like this and and so that’s, because so what happens? You take this testosterone? You take the stuff online and it damages that feedback loop.
Also, the pituitary gland might Pat Rafi in that particular area that, before the follicle, stimulating hormone is made to tell your testicles yeah, so you may break down that whole area. I just said that the doctors just look at your testosterone.
They don’t, look at your follicle, stimulating hormone. They don’t, look at your estrogen. They don’t, look at the FSH. They don ‘ T. Look at all that stuff, so in functional medicine, the ideas first is to test for all that to see if the feedback loop is even intact.
If it’s intact, then then you go to strictly a a functional medicine approach. Now, what’s, a functional medicine approach, functional medicine approach is, I mean, is – is to look at all of the aspects of physiology that can go wrong that ultimately results in you becoming that type.
1 type. 2. Diabetic all right, I’m, sorry type 2 pre-diabetic in some resistant person and and so in in a classical functional medicine. In the chronology class, you’re first gonna look at the person’s gut there’s, two reasons you’re gonna look at their intestines one.
Is there’s? Something in your test is called beta, glucuronidase and if they have beta glucuronidase is not. If it’s high, you’re, not clearing your estrogen. So let me step back one more step here here’s, how it here’s! What’s supposed to happen to a hormone you’re supposed to make it it’s supposed to get used by your testicles.
You’re, telling your it to make in, and you may get testicles you make sperm and then and then it gives you strength and it helps your frontal lobe, but it does all that stuff. It goes all those receptor sites and, and it dampens inflammation, and when it’s done being used, then it needs to be cleared through the liver through the gallbladder into, but through the intestines and then out into the urine and or out into the Feces, that’s, the normal life of of testosterone and if any of those things are blocked up, particularly the liver gallbladder and the intestines.
You’re, going to have a you’re gonna have a problem because you’re, not clearing, and if you have constipation your your and you’re, not detoxing, that that hormone is not getting into The toilet, where it belongs, it can be reabsorbed in your intestine okay, but there’s back to the beta glucuronidase in a female.
The estrogens are supposed to be cleared that way. Well, we have estrogen as males and they’re supposed to be cleared by this beta glucuronidase enzyme in your intestines. If that’s high, then you’re, not going to clear it.
Your estrogen is going to go up. Your testosterone in testosterone, balance is gonna is gonna go off and you’re gonna have a problem. You’re gonna you’re gonna have a you’re gonna get all these symptoms.
You’re. You’re gonna think that your testosterone is low and you’re gonna get and you’re gonna take you’re gonna take testosterone, and if you keep taking testosterone over a period Of time it’s actually going to increase this problem, because what happens when you get the testosterone right when you win, when you’re, taking the testosterone, the normal flow of testosterone, is you make it? Then it has to go to the cells and be used before it gets cleared.
Well, it has to hit the cell the testosterone the cell has to open it has to go in if you keep taking hormone replacement therapy. Normally you’re, not going to be able to gauge it exactly correctly for what your body needs.
The way your brain can by assessing the balances in there so bait. So when you take hormone replacement therapy – and this goes for women too – with their estrogen – if you – if, if you keep doing the testosterone and the testosterone, keeps hitting this receptor site eventually, this receptor site becomes resistant to opening and letting the testosterone in so then it Stays out here when the testosterone stays in your bloodstream and it’s, not getting in the cell.
You get the same symptoms as though you are not taking any test tossed around. Does that make sense you get low so whether you have low testosterone or high testosterone, you get these these same symptoms.
You get symptoms of not having enough testosterone. I hope that’s, not confusing. I hope that was pretty clear, so you I so and then it’s about testosterone, estrogen balance. If you have a bad got the other, then you’re, not clearing your estrogens.
If you have the too much beta glucuronidase, so that needs to be checked, yeah yeah, you know I do a gut panel on people that have that test, whether they have high- Cooper on today’s. If you have, if you have another aspect of the guy, is, if you have these Tai endotoxins, they’re called they’re called lipo polysaccharides, so these are bad little buggers in your intestines.
They’re bacteria that are in your intestines and they literally are now being labeled in the literature as being obesogenic. In other words, if you got them, if you got these lipopolysaccharides and you have a leaky gut and they get out of your leaky gut, they cause you to be fat because they alter the ability of your body to produce to process insulin properly.
The insulin doesn’t allow the sugar into the cell this now you start off in the insulin resistance, pre-diabetes, diabetes, diabetes, even if you’re exercising eating right, even if you’re. If, if you’re, even if you’re wit, not overweight, even if you don’t fit the exact model of the manboobs in a lot of type of stuff.
This will eventually cause you to have diabetes. It’s, a very interesting thing so and then, and then, and then that and now what happens with the blood sugar. Okay, what happens with the diabetes? What happens with the pre-diabetes? What happens with the lipopolysaccharides the in some resistant? Is they cause your fat cells to create this aromatization process? Okay, and so the aromatization process? Is it turns your testosterone into estrogen in the fat cells? Women? Have this happen? It’s; okay, for them they’re supposed to territory testosterone into estrogen, because women should be more estrogenic within within reason and and and that’s.
What they’re made for that’s. Why women have wide hips that’s? Why women have the the fat where they have it? Okay, it’s, not where we’re supposed to have it. The men are supposed to have it so so this creates high testosterone low estrogen.
Again I go back to say you go in. You have low tea, oh man, I took the low tea. I’ve lost 60 pounds. I feel wonderful. Everything’s; great, that’s; great, that’s; fine, but you’re. You’re. You’re, actually creating a problem.
You’re, creating a situation where you’re, going to break that feedback loop. Your testicles are gonna atrophy. Your your follow your your your pituitary glands canary and you’re gonna have to take something like that.
For the rest of your life or suffer the or suffer the from the symptoms that you’re gonna have so, and that’s. Not just for the record when you draw that out over a period of time. That’s, not a good thing for your physiology.
If you look at, if you look at weight, lifters who’ve been taking steroids for a long time or you talk to something they ‘ Ll tell you, you know, you’ll, see their face, getting craggy and you’ll, see that and it can, it can cause like heart problems and it can cause strokes and it can cause those types of things.
So what do you do? So? What do you do so so what you do in classic, classic classic functional medicine is, you know I kind of got diverted from that a little bit and you’ll, see why here? The second is you look at that you look at the intestines.
Okay, you’re gonna check the intestines first there they have lipopolysaccharides. Do they have this beta glucuronidase? You’re gonna look at the liver. Why? Because everything because testosterone are supposed to be getting cleared through the liver, if it’s, not getting cleared through the liver or the or the or the or the gallbladder, then then you’re going to not then, and then it’s, gonna get stuck in your liver and and and you’re, not going to be clear, and then that’s, going to go into your and then that’s.
Gon na go into your fat cells, and if you already have this process a pre-diabetes going on are on your way to it that’s, going to turn more testosterone into more estrogen. You’re gonna look at blood sugar for obvious reasons.
Okay, so you’re gonna look at blood sugar. You’re gonna look at gut. You’re gonna look at liver, gallbladder and and your and you’re gonna look at central fatty acids. Why essential fatty acids, essential fatty acids have a lot to do with? They have a lot to do with sensitizing.
The receptor sites so that this so that the testosterone you have does get in to the cell, and so if it’s in the cell, it’s, not going to be out here. If it’s out here, you’re, not gonna be getting too much of any of your fat cells.
It’s, not gonna it’s, not going to interfere with that delicate balance between your brain and your testicles. That’s going. This is exactly how much testosterone I need. So basically, the things you look at are pretty interesting.
The things you look at or in addition to that are pretty interesting, obviously beyond the so just to say just say so. Will, if you, if you look at all of those processes, if you look at all those organ systems and and and you find that they’re, not right and you correct them a lot of times.
Prisons, testosterone goes normal, like most of the time their testosterone goes. When does it not go normal? It doesn’t, go normal when that feedback loop is broken. Sometimes, if you catch it soon enough, you can use herbs and botanicals to get the follicle stimulating hormone.
Just start, you know making itself again in the pituitary gland to get the testicles start start working better, and so so so one of the things as you look at all those, so you want to reduce body fat.
You want to start exercising. You want to do like the old 10,000 steps a day thing or something like yeah, whatever works for you, if you have the lipopolysaccharides, you’re, not gonna lose weight until you get those under control.
That’s. Another whole presentation, so you’re. Looking at the gut, we do a gut. We do a gut panel that tells us whether that’s there. You have to decrease stress. You have to decrease stress stress, as I stated before, and I said I would get back to when your adrenal glands are under strain, that’s where, when you’re stressed, your brain is telling your adrenal glands to make a lot Of hormones to put you in fight flight, so you can handle the stress when you’re in fight fighting for a long time.
You’re stressed a lot. One of the things that happens is it puts out a lot of something called cortisol when you’re under stress your body’s, trying to put more trying to take sugar out of your liver there’s.
A lot of fun there’s, a lot of sugar stored in your liver for the purpose of fight flight, and it takes the sugar out of your liver. And it puts it into your muscles and it puts it in your bloodstream and it gives you more energy and gives you more strength.
But if you’re stressed over long period of time and that cortisol stays high, your blood sugar is gonna keep staying high. That’s, going to cause the insulin resistance. That’s, going to cause the the aromatization testosterone down estrogen in the aromatization.
Their stress is a big one. You know it was one that interested me, because I’m thinking back to a seminar that I went through. Was these EMFs? These these frequencies, that people talk about that, we think, is a joke, but they’re.
Now not thinking that having your cell phone in your front pocket is a joke anymore. Then I had a picture that I was showing somebody the other day on what a cell phone does to your brain. When you stick it up here and – and it showed that you know in a in a in a child – I mean an adult – this entire part of the brain is affected by those radio frequencies that are coming out of cell phone.
There was another video that showed in a or another MRI cat scan. It was neither one of those. It was an electrical magnetic scan and and showed that if you put that, if you put this cell phone here, this amount of the brain is affected.
When you’re, putting the cell phone there, but cell phone in your pocket, there is strong evidence that it can can decrease testosterone. So you might want to look at that if you particularly if you have your cell phone, even in your back pocket, but particularly if you have your cell phone in the front pocket it’s, something to look at so these are.
These are kind of the main things. If, if, if you do the main things you fix the guy, you fix the gallbladder. If it needs to be fixing, you fix the sugar, you fix the intestines, you fix the essential fatty acids and there’s.
Still a problem, then there are numerous good products that will that will take down the high testosterone. I mean I’m. Sorry, the high estrogen – and I would wait until as a practitioner, and so we did all the other things because I would say easily seventy percent of time.
If we do that. First, the person’s. Testosterone, estrogen levels are gonna be restored if they’re, not it’s because there’s, some atrophy taking place, but maybe not enough to where you can’t recover the property, the testicles and that Feedback loop, so then you could actually take some supplements that will decrease your estrogen.
I would decrease the estrogen not give you something to boost your testosterone. Decreasing the estrogen in a male is normal, increasing their testosterone. Artificially is not it messes with that feedback loop.
If, in the end, that’s, what needs to happen, and you can pull it off with that increasing your testosterone is what needs to happen. You can pull it off with herbs and botanicals once everything else is taken, it is, is handled you.
Can you can use you use herbs and botanicals and then and then, if all, if none of that works, then you probably need to have like some sort of hormone replacement therapy, which is not a great thing in the long term.
But but if you understand this process, then you will understand that that’s, something that you don’t need to do that’s. It. I think that’s, it. I think that’s, pretty much testosterone and male menopause andropause.
All of the difference, all the different aspects of what is creating that that lethargy, that overweight mistake and yeah first thing I hear on the testosterone commercials, I lost 60 pounds and my wife and my libido is back, and my wife tells me I have to take This for the rest of my life, she’s, not gonna, be telling you that a few years I can tell you that she’s gonna be going what happened because that’s, that’s! Pretty much how it goes so so andropause there you go male hormone imbalances that’s, that’s, pretty much it in a nutshell.
So I don’t know that I need to announce to the audience that’s, problem, probably being attracted to this. Maybe maybe some physicians are being attracted to this, that our next presentation will be on female hormones and there’s.
Gon na be a lot of similarity and then, but there’s. Gon na be a lot more complexity on that one. So so I hope this helps. I hope this gives you a different perspective on on maybe the long-term solution for your male hormone imbalances, and and if it does then on that now it pleased me very much so until next time is doctor Rutherford and send me all your questions.
So many suggestions – and I really appreciate that so you take care, see you next time you